| Here’s what some critical
thinkers have to say about “What
Holds Back the Elephant”:
http://www.g7welcomingcommittee.com/press/subhold.html
Maximumrocknroll #247
December 03, www.maximumrocknroll.com
In this issue:
DSB, The Boils, Popular Shapes, Phoenix
Foundation, Bathtub Shitter, Meet the Virus,
Cropknox, “Punk Babies on Tour”
Article.
Punk Babies on Tour
When I was four months pregnant, I jumped
at the chance to go on a four week tour
because I knew that would be it for me
touring for an undetermined amount of
time.
Not until my girl was 18 months old did
I leave her for four days so that I could
go play a few out of town shows. Taking
her with me those four days seemed impossible
and besides, I felt like I deserved a
mini-vacation, although I did have a lot
of anxieties about being away from her
for the first time.
But after it was done, although I did
miss her, I have to say that it was great
to have a full nights sleep for the first
time in a year and a half and it was hella
fun to be able to have some drinks because
the worry of passing my girl any alcohol
through my breast milk was removed. Instead
of nursing her with my milk, I was making
DIY white Russians at the bar. Yum! Yum!
Those four days gave me a lot more than
a hangover and some sleep, though. It
showed me that I could reclaim the parts
of myself that had been put on hold. How
to do that with her instead of leaving
her behind was what I needed to figure
out.
Luckily, I had been tipped off about
a band that were getting ready to tour
with their kid who was a bit younger than
mine. I immediately felt hopeful &
excited to hear all about how they did
it. The first thing I learned sounded
like an advantage that I wouldn't have;
both parents are in the band together.
And they brilliantly thought to bring
a nanny as a roadie because someone's
got to be with babe while mom and dad
rock!
And soon after, I found another punk
mom on the punk parent email group I subscribe
to that brought her baby girl on tour.
Another advantage emerged; she wasn't
actually in the band, just dad was, so
no nanny was needed.
So after milling the possibility of touring
with my tot around and around in my head
thanks to the aforementioned inspirations,
I decided to go for it. I did have anxieties
about it. I thought it perhaps wasn't
the most wise of decisions. I rationalised
that at worst, we'd have to cancel the
rest of the tour if it started to suck
and that at best, it would just be doable.
I'm glad to say that the experience was
way better than I ever imagined it could
be. It was more than merely doable; it
was nothing short of amazing and I can't
believe it took me nearly three years
to attempt it.
And I'm also glad to say that all three
(the other two bands I mentioned above
& mine) of our experiences were so
good that all of us are going to do it
again, or have already done so.
So here we have attempted a three way
conversation / interview to hopefully
shed some light on the whys, whats and
hows of touring with a kid in tow and
that our experiences will give a nudge
to others who want to be able to do it,
too.
Decoder:
A = Andy
RM = Rosa-Maria
J = Jessica
It's so much extra work & worry to
tour with a child, so why even bother?
Why not just leave your child with a trusted
friend or family member?
A - Touring is great and my kid is even
better, so the two together could only
be the best. Seriously, we didn't think
twice about bringing Sam on tour. In fact,
this was one of the things we'd planned
on doing when Jen was still pregnant.
If we were going to have a kid, he was
going to be part of our whole lives, not
just our lives as "parents".
If we were going to have a kid, our band
was going to have a new member. I think
it's important for our children to see
that we still do things that are important
to us, see us take chances and fulfil
our dreams, see us fail and fall on our
faces too. I'd hate to stop doing this
and resent my kid for it. I'd hate my
kid to feel that he was the reason I abandoned
my dreams.
RM - Well, since Eva is very much still
attached to my breast, if I wanted to
go, she had to go with me. And we like
it that way. Instead of us dropping out
of the scene or whatever to be parents,
we try to incorporate her into our lives,
making adjustments as necessary. Also,
Eva thrives among people. In groups, she
likes to stay up late and entertain. We
have family and friends speckled across
the country that want to see her and meet
her. So, tour is perfect for her and think
of how much cooler her baby book is going
to be because of it.
J - It was a little different for me
than for Andy and Rosa-Maria. They had
an advantage that I didn't and that was
having both parents touring together with
child. I would love it that way, but it's
just not happening. I bothered to finally
take the plunge to tour with my girl because
if I didn't bring her with me, then there
couldn't have been a tour and I was just
not going to accept that reality. That
would lead to resentment I think, like
Andy mentioned. I actually considered
leaving her with a friend for a few days
who would then have to drive her a hundred
miles to my parents for a few days who
would then drive her back to another friend.
They would have had to juggle her around
because they all have work or other commitments.
I didn't think juggling her around like
that would be very good for her. She and
I are a pretty attached team.
Where did you go and for how long? How
old was kiddo?
A - When Sam was 9 or 10 months old,
we went for three weeks through the western
U.S. Then a couple months later we went
to Europe. Sam had his first birthday
on tour in Germany.
RM - When Eva was 4 ½ months old,
we did a two week tour through the east
coast with David's "band" DFI.
It's just him and a drum machine, so it
was just us three on the road. We wound
our way from Austin to Connecticut where
she met her grandmother and great grandmothers
for the first time (Details of this tour
are in Placenta #2). We just got back
from a month long tour of the US + one
date in Canada with J Church, Storm the
Tower and DFI, all in one van. Needless
to say, the J Church tour was quite a
bit different. She turned fifteen months
the day before we got back.
J - We did a week long tour around the
South East U.S. Gainesville, Pensacola,
New Orleans, Athens, Asheville, Valdosta,
St. Augustine. We could only go for a
week because all of my band mates were
in school at the time and that week was
their Spring Break. The last show of the
tour was just two days before Emma-Joy's
third birthday.
Before tour, what special preparations
did you have to make before hitting the
road?
For example: a) Packing more food and
snacks than usual -
A - Lots of dried fruit and stuff like
that in the van. We've always been pretty
food minded on tour, stocking up at health
food stores and stuff so that didn't change
much. We just got Sam stuff when we got
ourselves stuff.
RM - The first tour was pretty easy,
considering she was completely breastfed,
so I didn't have to worry about bringing
her any snacks or anything. As long as
I was eating, she was doing fine. This
last tour was a bit more difficult, since
she's a toddler now, and eats a lot of
real food. I had delusions of grandeur
when it came to snacking. She was going
to have all the healthy stuff she has
at home. I brought her a cooler and was
going to keep it stocked with perfectly
balanced meals, blah blah blah. Yeah right.
I kept forgetting to get ice for the cooler
and the soy milk kept going bad. She ate
Taco Bell late nights more regularly than
I would ever care to admit. And she got
cheap cookies to keep her occupied.
J - I brought a whole crate of food for
the road. I could not stock up that much
once on the road and out of state because
then I wouldn't be able to use my food
stamp card. Canned soup. Little cereal
boxes and little individual boxes of soy
milk. Juice boxes. Peanut butter, jelly
and bread. Granola bars. Fruit leather.
Basically anything healthy, non-perishable
and that she would eat. My mama preparation
was a big hit with my hungry bandmates.
We also had a cooler and like Rosa-Maria,
were not too good at keeping it iced.
b) Other things that had to be packed
that were never packed for tour before
-
A - We had to arrange a stroller and
a little bed thing for Europe. We'd never
brought diapers on tour before. Actually,
the first tour forced us to stop using
cloth diapers for obvious reasons. We
brought some toys and lots of books, but
we also stopped at thrift stores along
the way and replenished the stocks.
RM - I was really nervous about forgetting
things before both tours, but, per usual,
things turned out fine. We used cloth
diapers on that first tour, so it was
funny packing the amp and guitar and such
in the trunk with the nylon bag for dirty
diapers on top of it. But she didn't require
much at all. For example, I didn't bring
a stroller on the first tour, I just brought
the sling. But on this last tour, because
she's older now, she needs more activities
to keep her occupied.. We also brought
the stroller this time around which turned
out to be a life-saver, and I admit it
was pretty cute to see the trailer all
packed up with the last thing loaded in
being the stroller.
J - Actually, I packed mostly the same
stuff, just doubled. Clothes for me, clothes
for her. My books, her books. But more
art supplies and toys than usual. I could
have used a stroller, though. A 37 pound
child gets a bit heavy using only a sling.
After Athens, we had to pack in an inflatable
Hello Kitty chair that someone at that
show dumpstered for Emma-Joy.
c) Nanny?
A - On the first tour we had our friend
Hollie come along to hang out with Sam
while we played and give us some time
away if we needed it. Hollie had been
our roommate for years and hangs out with
Sam when we practice, so he was super
comfortable with her. In Europe, since
we couldn't afford to fly Hollie over
with us, we asked our friend Caley, from
London, to come along.
J - We brought our friend Friedel as
a nanny-roadie. We couldn't have done
the tour without her! She did double duty
and was more than awesome. She really
planned ahead and thought to bring daily
surprises and crafts to do. She gifted
Emma-Joy with books that were hers when
she was a little girl, a present a day
leading up to Emma-Joy's third birthday.
She brought socks and yarn and needles
for making sock puppets. And she was instrumental
in keeping us organised and where we needed
to be - made phone calls, read the maps,
etc.
d) Prearranging a kid friendly / kid
safe space to stay? If you comment on
this, please define or describe what a
kid friendly / kid safe space is to you.
A - When we booked shows, we told folks
that our kid would be coming along and
we'd need a semi-quiet, smoke-free room
at or near the venue. Most places bent
over backwards to accommodate us and me
and Jen and Sam ended up with some pretty
plush digs at times. A couple venues didn't
have anything for us though which was
a bit of a drag. Gilman Street in Berkeley
for example. The night of our Gilman show,
it was pretty cold so me and Sam spent
the majority of the night in Richard's
van. For us, kid friendly/kid safe meant
pretty much a place where his ears wouldn't
get damaged and he wouldn't have to breathe
second hand smoke.
RM - On the DFI tour, the clubs were
primarily 21+ and not smoke-free. It was
also cold out, so that was really sucky
for Eva and me. It was hard finding places
we could be while David was out playing
shows. For this last tour, almost all
of the shows were all ages and most of
them until the East Coast were smoke-free.
But the venues that weren't smoke-free
more often than not had some sort of room
that they would offer us to chill in,
or, since the weather was nice, we could
take turns taking Eva for strolls while
someone else watched the merch/played.
J - If we didn't know where we were staying
ahead of time, it would be arranged while
at the show. In asking for a kid safe
place to stay, I'd explain that meant
a smoke-free room, no super loud partying
that would wake her up, and no forgotten
/ misplaced drugs on the floor or some
other place that'd be within a toddlers
reach. Like Andy mentioned, people more
often than not went out of their way to
help Emma-Joy and I have a comfy, suitable
spot. We scored two walk-in closets, an
apartment whose tenant was out of town,
a basement bedroom, a friend's floor and
one hotel room.
e) Special attention given to routing
so as to minimise really long stretches
of driving?
A - Both tours were way more compact
than previous tours. Our times in Europe
before Sam was born, we'd play from Sweden
to Portugal to Bosnia and anywhere in
between. Likewise, a U.S. tour could mean
12 or more hours in a stretch. But now
we just pick a small area and really concentrate
where we book the shows.
RM - I didn't really have any say in
booking them. But this last tour, the
drives ... ouch.
J - I was really involved in the routing
because I knew that too much in the van
time wouldn't be fair to Emma-Joy and
I knew that a drive that usually takes
6 hours would take more like 8 hours with
a toddler. We still ended up having a
few long hauls, though.
Life in the van - How was it dealing
with a child who might have a tough time
being stuck in a car safety seat during
long drives? (Did you anticipate it happening?
If so, what preparations did you make
so that you'd be able to deal with it?
Did it happen? Was there lots of nursing
while driving?)
A - Lots of books and toys and rest stops.
We tried to co-ordinate nap time with
drive time. The U.S. tour was easier for
that because we had two vehicles - Me,
Jen and Sam in a little car and two bands
and assorted others in the van, so we
didn't have to rely on everyone being
ready to go when Sam was ready or vise
versa. Europe was a bit more frustrating
in that regard because we only had one
vehicle and not everyone realised the
value of a good nap. Also in Europe, Jen
often had to hide up in the loft because
Sam would freak out some if Jen was around.
Perhaps he could smell the breast milk.
RM - It was rough on all of us, although
Eva did pretty well most of the time.
There was a time on the way to Portland
in the middle of the night when she cried
for over an hour straight and nothing
I could do would make her stop, which
was probably extremely stressful on everybody;
I know it was on me. There were times
that were really frustrating to me when
decisions were made about driving that
pretty much meant she would wake up in
the van, take a nap in the van, wake up
in the van, and only really get out of
the van when it was time for her to go
to sleep again. It's hard for people who
don't have kids to understand how maybe
driving at night in these instances might
be less stressful. It was hard on David
and me to try and keep her occupied for
such long stretches. Also, if I was next
to her, she wanted to nurse, which is
really uncomfortable to do while they're
in their seat, but if David was next to
her and she caught a glimpse of me she'd
get pissed off. Things that kept her occupied:
snacks, those amazing mess-free markers
that only draw on certain paper, bubbles,
books, some sort of shape-sorting toy,
and a bounty of boys willing to make goofy
faces at her or scream when she screamed.
I did occasionally take her out of her
car seat for short periods of time, which
of course she loved and of course made
me extremely nervous.
J - There is no such thing as coordinating
nap time for Emma-Joy, ever, so that was
not on my side like it was for Andy. She
is the one who does not recognise the
value of a good nap! Emma-Joy handled
the 6 to 8 hour drives a lot better than
her past history of car travel suggested
that she would. Everyone in the van is
to thank for that I think, for taking
shifts with her. Lars would break out
the banjo and sing. Todd would read her
books and indulge her crush on him. Matt
would play toys with her. Friedel would
make sock puppets or colour with her.
The 12 hour drive was uncomfortable and
difficult for her, although something
unusual got her through it. She weaned
at two and a half years old, so at tour
time, she had been off the boob for six
months. She was really trying to hang
in there towards the end of that long
drive but was too uncomfortable in her
car seat to fall asleep soundly. After
a lot of squirming, irritation, and whimpering,
"I just wanna go to sleeeeeeeep,"
she asked if she could nurse. I obliged
her request, though it was tricky maneuvering
on my part because of her car seat, and
she nursed herself to sleep for the first
time in six months. It was so sweet and
I was really proud of her actually, knowing
exactly what she needed and asking for
it.
Band relations - How did the other non-parent
band members fit into the picture? (Any
special requests made of them? Did they
cooperate with childcare so you (the parent(s)
) could have a break?)
A - All our band-mates are crazy about
Sam and Sam loves them like the family
that they are. There was never any problem
with anyone in the band. Maybe sometimes
they were more into partying than helping
out with Sam, but this is understandable.
It never became a big deal though.
RM- Everyone in the bands was great.
Of course at certain times they didn't
want to watch her, not even for a second,
or got frustrated with watching her, but
most of the time were a great help and
she really enjoyed hanging out with them.
I felt like she was riding with 7 or 8
uncles, which was an awesome feeling.
It was also nice to see them interact
with her, pick her up and play with her,
just have fun with her, without thinking
twice about it. I didn't really expect
any help, and never expected anyone to
watch her, since it was our decision to
bring her on tour with us, not theirs,
but they would watch her occasionally
while I watched the merch table, and I
felt really good about building Eva's
community. At the end of tour though,
a few of them did state that they would
never be having kids. So, you never know.
J - The only special request that was
made was no smoking in the van. Suddenly,
grown boys were having to take as many
out-of-the-van breaks as Emma-Joy needed!
I already mentioned the shifts to entertain
while driving. Lars also took a shift
one night to be the one to go to bed early
and not stay up partying. That way, I
could stay up and enjoy myself after the
show for a while instead of hurrying to
bed to get enough sleep to be refreshed
enough to wake up early with Emma-Joy.
He woke up with her, dressed her, took
her out for breakfast and played with
her at a playground until the rest of
us woke up. He was also amazing when I
needed to take Emma-Joy to the emergency
room for a pulled elbow. While I comforted
her, he was on the phone getting directions
to the closest hospital. He drove and
waited with us, too, making paper dolls
and colo ring. Yup, her first tour and
her first visit to the ER. Evidentally,
it is not OK to swing a child who is under
the age of four around only holding them
by their hands. Their connective elbow
tissue is not yet fully developed, so
swinging them around by their hands causes
the elbow to pull out of place. It's called
Nursemaid's Elbow. The doctor spent less
than 30 seconds to get it back in place
and Emma-Joy was fully recovered within
ten minutes. Friedel felt terrible about
the whole incident because she was the
one who had done the swinging and Emma-Joy
never fully forgave her, which is too
bad because Friedel really was the tour
lifesaver overall.
At the venue - Please describe the typical
scenario while you were at the venue.
(Where was baby while you were playing?
Who was baby with?)
A - Typically there was a room we could
use to hang out in, or if not, we went
for walks around whatever town we were
in or kicked it in the van. Nine times
out of ten, Sam would fall asleep with
Hollie or Caley as soon as we started
to play. We must be his lullabye music.
He'd stay sleeping until the show was
over, wake up for a while afterwards and
then sleep until nine the next morning
like clockwork. It was uncanny, you could
set your watch by him, he didn't even
get jetlagged.
RM - Get to show, I sling her while loading
in merch and David loads in equipment
with everyone else. I or someone else
watch her while D sets up, then D or somebody
watches her while I set up merch. (Do
you know how much stuff J Church has?
Well, it's a friggin' lot!) I plug up
her ears and tape the plugs in. Bands
play, Eva dances and claps at the end
of the songs and plays drums in between
sets. Load up, that's it. Sometimes Eva
would get cranky and someone would take
her for a stroll. It was predominantly
D and I watching her, but sometimes others
would take her. Sometimes we would get
lucky and she'd nap during a set, and
we could just sit back and breathe a little.
J - If we were lucky enough to know before
the show where we would be staying that
night, we'd go there before going to the
venue. I'd get Emma-Joy settled in with
some dinner and a bath and Friedel would
stay with her and put her to bed while
the rest of us would go to the show. But
typically, Emma-Joy would hang outside
the show with me because she didn't like
how loud it was inside, even with earplugs.
When I'd go in to play, Friedel would
stay with her outside or in the van. (I
couldn't believe how many people thought
I had just left Emma-Joy in the van all
alone!) She was always asleep in the loft
by the time I finished playing. We got
a smooth routine down where we'd do all
the loading out before opening the doors
to re-load the van. Then, I'd carry Emma-Joy
from the loft to the front seat and hold
here there until everything was in place
and we were ready to pull out. I'd then
get her into the car seat. This would
wake her up and she'd usually stay awake
for the whole drive to the place where
we were staying, but she'd fall right
asleep as soon as I got her inside and
snuggled her.
Judgements - Did anyone before the tour
or during the tour have criticisms of
your parenting or reservations about your
decisions to tour with your child? If
so, did you bother defending/explaining
yourself?
A - We've never gotten anything but support
for the choices we've made regarding Sam.
It's been great, sort of unbelievable
really. The most we'd hear is from people
who thought it would be crazy to take
a baby on tour, but after talking with
us and meeting Sam, they understood.
RM - Just, "You brought your baby
on tour??" accompanied by a disgusted
look, or, "Do you have earplugs for
her?" both of which were answered
with an eye roll and "Yes."
More often than not though, people would
be stoked that she was there and everyone
was really into her. So, we got more positive
stuff than negative stuff.
J - Lots of friends were very supportive.
If others had criticisms, they kept them
to themselves just like they should have.
My Dad said something about how I shouldn't
be taking her around "that"
environment, how she's just an impressionable
young girl. My mom was more supportive
and even offered to help with the care
juggle if I chose not to take Emma-Joy
on tour with me. To echo both Andy and
Rosa-Maria, overall, people tended to
give more props and admiration than negativity.
Afterthoughts - Compared to tours without
a child along, what was the same and what
was different? Can you judge whether you
prefer one way over the other? Are you
planning on touring with child again?
A - The U.S. tour with Sam was the best
time Jen and I ever had on tour. Europe
was slightly more tiring because the shows
ran so much later and I'd get up with
Sam every morning. But that was okay too
because we were able to get some time
together to hit the cobblestones and search
out the local cafe before everyone else
got up. I love touring with Sam. We're
going out again in September, this time
to the eastern U.S. Sam will be two.
RM - Life is different when you have
a kid. Parts of it are easier and parts
of it are harder. It's the same with tour.
Having a kid is our reality now. David
is going on tour for a week to Japan this
December and I'm staying home because
we can't afford it for a week, but if
we were to do another tour, Eva would
certainly come with us, especially if
it were for more than a week. She's just
a part of our life now.
J - The two biggest differences for me
are eating healthier and sleeping more
at night after shows and less during the
day while in the van. It was also pretty
different having to evacuate everyone
from the van so somebody could take a
shit in the van. Emma-Joy was potty trained
for peeing but she still demanded a diaper
for pooping. So when she felt one coming,
she'd let us know and we'd pull over.
I'd get a diaper on her and she'd demand
that we all get out and leave her alone.
It was pretty funny when she'd be waving
at us from inside and yelling out the
window, "It's not done coming out
of my body yet!" Now that I do have
a kid, it's a pretty silly question really
whether I prefer to tour with her or without
her because even if she were not physically
on the tour, I still consider myself with
her in some way. She's a part of me and
I carry that wherever I go. I will jump
at the chance to tour with her again.
All of us have only children. What do
you think about touring with two or more
kids?
A - Before we went on the first tour,
we tried to contact a band called Gunspiking
who apparently toured with two kids but
we couldn't get hold of them. Touring
with two or more would be a challenge
I'm sure. I got "fixed" after
Sam was born so perhaps I'll never know
what that would be like.
RM - I want to have another kid at some
point and I'm still not ready to throw
in the rag. I think though if we were
to do it with two kids, it would have
to be less than a month long because a
month felt too long sometimes. And we
would have to have a separate car, not
all be in the van.
J - For the next tour, I've been thinking
it would be a good idea to bring a fellow
parent (and his or her child) as the nanny-roadie.
I think two older kids are easier to take
care of than taking care of one is. My
experience has been that kids want to
play with each other more when they are
four to six years old than when they are
younger than three years old. Kids aged
three and under tend to want and need
more attention from a primary caregiver.
Also at age three, this magical thing
happens and they can all of a sudden play
and share with another child without constant
guidance.
Schooling is always a hotly debated topic
among non-mainstream parents. What have
you thought about your schooling options
for your child and how that would compliment
or effect touring or not being able to
tour? A - We'll probably put Sam in some
sort of hippy-dippy alternative type school
and drag him out occasionally to go on
tour. Home schooling from the tour van
or something like that. But who knows,
there may well come a time when he doesn't
want to go on tour. We'll cross that bridge
when we come to it I suppose.
RM - It really just depends on the kid.
I have examined my options and I still
am waiting to see how Eva develops to
see what kind of schooling she'll need/want,
and I imagine I will adapt that to the
road if we travel when she is school-age.
There are opportunities for learning everywhere
anyway.
J - Ditto what Andy and Rosa-Maria already
said.
Anything else?
A - People think it's a big deal to go
on tour with your kid but really, how
many punk tours have you heard of that
didn't involve crying jags, temper tantrums
and inappropriate bodily functions?
RM- Uh, so, yeah, I do this zine and
stuff. It's a punk rock/vegan parenting
zine called Placenta. I'm working on an
issue all about taking your kids on tour,
so if you know anybody else who has done
it, send me an e-mail. I'm also always
looking for submissions about punk and
parenting. Oh yeah, and I have pins, one
says "Rocker Mom" and the other
says "Punk Parent," both in
tattoo-style banner hearts. If you'd like
either of these, send me a SASE with a
note saying which one you'd like. Copies
of Placenta #1 & #2 are also available
for $2 + postage.
J - I hope this interview inspires and
gives useful information to others who
would like to take their kids on tour.
It's easier and more worth it than you
may think.
Contact information -
A - Andy form the band Submission Hold.
P.O. Box 21533 / 1424 Commercial Dr. /
Vancouver, B.C. / Canada / V5L 5G2. Or
email - andy@submissionhold.org
RM - Placenta Zine, c/o Rosa-Maria, 4412
Avenue A #207, Austin, TX, 78751. Or email
- placentazine@yahoo.com
J - As always, punkparents get in touch.
P.O. Box 12839 / Gainesville, FL 32064.
Or email - yardwideyarns@hotmail.com
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